Ask the Maester s5e9: Dragons, Human Sacrifice, and More Dragons
Geege Schuman stashed this in Best of GoT
Never mind that Stannis killed his brother with a smoke baby ....
Tom asks, “It would seem from the ‘Inside the Episode’ that the Shireen horrible twist was actually from GRRM and not Benioff/Weiss. Does that surprise you? Aren’t Shireen/Selyse still at Castle Black in the book?”
Crackpot theory: A few years back, when Thrones showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss met with George R.R. Martin in Santa Fe so that the author could map out his story to its end — beyond what exists in the books — Martin, in the great tradition of J.J. Abrams, Carlton Cuse, and every writer everywhere whose job is to literally make things up as they go along, just kind of told B&W a bunch of bullshit. I mean, not totalbullshit. That’s harsh. But, like, he’s sure of the solid brickwork of those story points, with the gaps mortared together with some yada yada. Again, that’s a writer’s job. And, really, who among us would not go so far as to build a 700-foot-tall wall of bullshit once the six- and seven-figure checks started flying to and fro? Is Martin going to be like, “No, I don’t really know the ending. I guess I’ll give the money back.” Do you really think the whole reason he hasn’t finished the books is because he writes slowly?
That’s how I explain Benioff and Weiss dropping a “When George told us about this …”1 as a way to explain how they arrived at the scene from “The Dance of Dragons” in which Stannis Baratheon has his daughter Shireen burned at the stake to gain the favor of the Lord of Light. Because, OK, apparently that will happen in the books. But it doesn’t happen on the march to Winterfell in the books, and the timing matters because context matters.
What bothers me about the scene is that it’s based on a character acting in a way that’s counter to how he’s been depicted all series. Stannis has been depicted as one of the greatest generals in the realm. He held the Storm’s End against a one-year siege by eating rats. So if the device that gets Stannis to the place where he’s desperate enough to burn his only daughter and heir alive2 is (1) some snow and (2) a sudden and convenient ineptitude at doing war stuff, that feels off to me. Stannis, “the greatest military commander in Westeros” per Davos, is in enemy territory, on the march toward a belligerent castle, and for some reason (i.e., to make this scene happen) he doesn’t have scouts out or watchmen guarding the camp or have his army — made up largely of professional mercenaries who themselves should know better — in the state of alertness necessary in a war. Also: Ramsay is now a ninja. I don’t buy it.
Of course bad things happen on Game of Thrones. But when you arrive at those things through contrivances, it cheapens the shock. It’s about consistent storytelling.
I was trying to remember if Stannis knows he killed his brother.
Did Stannis see the smoke baby or does he only know that somehow his brother mysteriously died?
Stannis asks Melisandre what she said to Matthos. She reveals that she told him that “death by fire is the purest death.” Stannis questions her intent and she says only that it is true. She asks if Stannis is troubled and he says that he is. She claims that armies are toys to the Lord of Light. Stannis suggests that she tell her god to burn them. She says that she can tell him nothing but prays for, and obeys, his commands. Stannis reports that Renly has 100,000 men whose allegiance should be his. Melisandre urges him to have faith. He tells her that in a real war the side with the greater number wins and that he cannot take King's Landing without Renly's men and cannot defeat Renly in the field. She claims to have seen the path to victory in the flames. He reminds her that he has said her words and burnt the idols of the Seven already. She circles behind him and undoes her robe. She tells him that he must give all of himself. He reminds her of his marriage vow. She says that Selyse is sickly, weak and shut away in a tower and that she disgusts Stannis. She says that Selyse has given Stannis no sons, only stillborns and death. She promises him a son. He repeats the promise as she kisses his ear. He returns her kisses and lifts her onto the table, scattering the models onto the floor.
He wishes for an outcome and doesn't seem concerned with the manner of achieving it.
Hmmm, that passage doesn't suggest that Stannis knows what actually happened to Renly.
Everything was shrouded in smoke, literally and figuratively.
As opposed to this time when Stannis went back on his promise to Shireen and heard her screams.
This did seem out of character for him.
I too wonder if Melisandre overstates her powers.
Why was Melisandre able to use leeches for king’s blood and kill three prominent figures last time and this time she needed someone burned at the stake?
Who said the leeches really worked? Robb died at the Red Wedding, the result of a long and convoluted assassination plot involving the Lannisters, Freys, and Boltons; Joffrey died by poison at the hands of the Tyrells and Littlefinger. There’s no clear causality there. Seems downright coincidental, if you ask me. I think it’s fair to wonder if Melisandre overrepresents her blood magic abilities.
This raises the important question: Who has enough Targaryen DNA to ride the other dragons?
How much Targaryen blood do you need to be a dragonrider, if Aegon is a blackfyre he would still have some targaryen blood in him, even though it would be diluted over the years. Would this be enough to control a dragon? (This is from 2103. Currently, Aegon's status: He ded.)
Also has anyone calculated how much targaryen blood daenerys has, she has ancestors who have been from other houses such as House Martell, I thing one of the early targaryen kings married a Arryn.
Altogether, has anyone figured out what percentage of her DNA is actually targaryen?Could Stannis be a Dragon rider, since his grandmother was a targaryen?
I didn't realize Stannis is part Targaryen.
There's also speculation that Jon Snow is part Targaryen.
Still, point taken. Jorah, stop touching people.
I’m pretty sure giant Wun Wun is the last of his kind.
Yes, it would have been cool to see a woman giant.